This is a repost from
only the discussion between John Reid and cONTRARIAN are included.
Antarctic ice shelf being eaten away by sea
4 December 2014 4:15 pm
John Reid • 8 days ago
Why are subaqueous volcanism and/or subglacial volcanism being ignored in this dicussion? See:
cONTRARIAN John Reid • 6 days ago
So what are you saying? It’s not climate change, it’s volcanoes?
“Why are… volcanism being ignored?”
1. Ocean warming and surface ice loss are greatly more significant factors.
2. Do the math: Volcanic heating estimated at 200MILLI watts per m2. That’s enough to melt 7 inches of ice in one year, or a mere 1/4 cubic km of ice if the extra heating covers an area of 500 square miles. (except I forgot to subtract out the 65mW/m2 everywhere else in the world)
3. They’re not being ignored. You just posted an article about it.
4. The article which you linked acknowledges the “hemorraging of ice” due to anthropogenic global warming.
5. There’s nothing anyone can do about this volcanism.
John Reid cONTRARIAN • 6 days ago
So you are saying that 1 Watt per square metre at the top of the atmosphere (e.g Trenberth) plays a major role in heating the deep ocean whereas heat fluxes as large as 10,000 Watts per square meter through the ocean floor (e.g. as observed at the TAG Hydrothermal Vent Field) can be ignored in the interests of keeping climate models smooth, deterministic and manageable. See
You also appear to be saying that scientists should ignore those forcings which we can do nothing about.
cONTRARIAN John Reid • 5 days ago
You didn’t answer the question.
And really, linking to your own blog-posted amateur article? NOT a credible source. Got some glaring errors in there. (You like the word “stochastic” a lot. What’s with that??)
“Ice age temperature of -18C”. First, “-18C” that’s Greenland only. Second, that’s -18C relative to the reference value – a “temperature anomaly”, not relative to zero C.
Global temperature in the depths of the ice age was only -9C temperature anomaly, with the reference level being the current interglacial. Global average temperature today is 14C (that’s degrees above freezing). Subtract 1C to get to the Holocene average maybe, so 13C minus 9C, still above zero. It is IMPOSSIBLE that global average temperature was anywhere near -18C.
This is very basic and you got it nails-on-chalkboard wrong. You are WAY out of your element!
John Reid cONTRARIAN • 5 days ago
I had hoped my blog reference would provide a better understanding of the point I was trying to make. It appears that I failed.
cONTRARIAN John Reid • 5 hours ago
You haven’t really produced any evidence showing that these hidden volcanic sources are in fact significant. This is such “low hanging fruit” that I suspect it was considered long ago and thrown aside as immaterial.
S/scientists estimated the average energy output of the volcanism you mention under the Antarctic ice and my calculations show it’s impact is trivial. Skepticism isn’t just saying “I don’t believe it”. If you think this volcanism is significant, then prove it. Show us YOUR calculations. Show us YOUR energy estimates. Convince us!
John Reid cONTRARIAN • 16 minutes ago
In my original question I only asked why it had not been considered in the present article or discussion? Not exactly “low hanging fruit”, though. See:
Scientists use computer models to try to predict the future of the ice sheet, but their lack of understanding of subglacial geothermal energy has been a glaring gap in these models. Measuring geothermal activity under the ice sheet is so difficult that researchers usually just enter one, uniform estimate for the contributions of geothermal heat to melting, Schroeder said.
Of course, volcanism isn’t uniform. Geothermal hotspots no doubt influence melting more in some areas than in others.
“It’s the most complex thermal environment you might imagine,” study co-author Don Blankenship, a geophysicist at UT Austin, said in a statement. “And then, you plop the most critical dynamically unstable ice sheet on planet Earth in the middle of this thing, and then you try to model it. It’s virtually impossible.”
It seems it is much easier to attribute ice-sheet melting to global warming and just leave it at that. Just about anything can be attributed to global warming it seems – heat waves, cold spells, droughts, floods, hurricanes. And now melting ice sheets.